[RESOLVED] Ambiguous Credits - how to add linked credits?

Regarding this release: The War On Drugs - Live Drugs Again

The credits presented are minimalist where they simply list all the names of everyone involved. You can see that page here..

It's relatively obvious that the names on the top are the band , so that can safely be added. But the list of names below are unclear. Not all of the names are obvious as to who they are, but many of them have other credits with The War On Drugs or very similar type of live/tour credits, so it seems highly likely these are actual credits, not just thanks or acknowledgements.

My opinion is that these should be linked credits since they almost certainly had involvement in this release. I understand we should reflect the release as is, but just because the designer (possibly even one of the names) chose to omit credit roles for some aesthetic reason doesn't mean we shouldn't still credit these people.

We have Other, but that would be an unlinked credit. I feel like I've asked this before, but do we have a linked credit that's simply generic that we can use? I certainly don't want to guess at the credit role.


For discussion (and for future me if we choose to add these), here are the list of names printed on the artwork, since the image is small. The linked names are the ones that are for sure, others are not clear:

Tyler Anderson
Eddie Chapa
Colleen Christman
Elizabeth Clawson
Lori Delancey
Laurence Eaves
Adam Fox
Ricardo Garcia
Steph Godshall
Josh Goldsmith
Bobby Mathias
Bob Strakele
Laruen Troutman
Matthew Walsh (3)

Thoughts?

Adding my helpful folks list. Feel free to ignore if you aren't interested!

typoman2

Hmm, do we know what these people actually did on the recording/release? Those listed above who do already exist in the db as PANs, they're profiles run the gamut from performer to engineer to crew.

Typically an otherwise unattributed role for a performing artist would be "Performer."

For a non-performing role, it kind of begs the question of by what means would we link them (as in, is it just a shoutout-type mention -- i.e., RSG §10.8.?).

NB - we recently had semi-related discussions about artists on releases without any role given, in case of interest:
https://discogs.librosgratis.biz/forum/thread/1098471

j_lit
Hmm, do we know who these people actually are?

Nope, not the unlinked ones for sure. I can make some assumptions on the others, but I don't really want to. Hence why a linked, but generic credit role would be great.

I suppose we could do some research and add a half "uncredited" credit given a valid source. I have a general dislike of [Uncredited] information, but in this case the person is not uncredited, but the role is.

I started to do some searching online for these names, but I think I'll wait to really research these names for now.

baldorr
Hmm, do we know who these people actually are?

Sorry, I edited that immediately when I realized you kind of already answered! Sorry!

baldorr
I have a general dislike of [Uncredited] information

Same ... and hopefully not off topic (and more fodder for the Biggest Pet Peeves thread), but other than very limited application such as when correcting an credit error on a release, I have more than a general dislike of "Uncredited" credits.

In the case here, if we can determine what their potential role would've been (i.e., the reason they are mentioned on the release), a I'm in of a "Performer" credit for those who did perform. But we might be hard pressed to say "Crew" is a generic role in credits list.

baldorr
Thoughts?

I think the role "Performer" captures it as well as able to until more information is known.

.....

maybe "Accompanied By" but atm only for release notes imo

1 - Tyler Anderson
2 - Eddie Chapa
3 - Colleen Christman
4 - Elizabeth Clawson (not (yet) in db)
5 - Lori Delancey (not (yet) in db)
6 - Dominic East ✔️
7 - Laurence Eaves ✔️
8 - Adam Fox
9 - Ricardo Garcia
10 - Steph Godshall (not (yet) in db)
11 - Josh Goldsmith ✔️
12 - Bobby Mathias
13 - Craig McQuiston ✔️
14 - Jimmy Russo (4) ✔️
15 - Benjamin Silverstein ✔️
16 - Bob Strakele ✔️
17 - Laruen Troutman (not (yet) in db)
18 - Matthew Walsh (3) ✔️

- Eddie Chapa
- bass, vocals (USA)
- group: Jungle Dogs
- group: Darklin Reach

- Colleen Christman
- backing vocalist for an indie pop release by Tyler Meacham (USA, February 25, 2022)

TopCats45s
I think the role "Performer" captures it as well as able to until more information is known.

Except not all of them have musical roles.

baldorr
Thoughts?

No specific credit is given on the release, so none should be added (under our current guidelines that is); it is unfortunate but that's what it is.
Unless of course a valid external source can be found. I've checked War On Drugs' website, bc, itunes, spotify for more info but have had no luck so far.

TopCats45s
I think the role "Performer" captures it as well as able to until more information is known.

That was my thought too.

chn74
TopCats45s
I think the role "Performer" captures it as well as able to until more information is known.

Except not all of them have musical roles.

+1

I'd consider Performer ("Instruments - Other Musical") as an artistic role, so not applicable for crew , engineers etc., IMO.

chn74
No specific credit is given on the release, so none should be added (under our current guidelines that is)

Agreed.

The names should probably only be listed in the notes. 11.1.1. does not apply since the info does not contain any credit roles which would have to be entered into the dedicated fields. The artwork just name-checks everyone involved in the making of the album.

edit

baldorr
It's relatively obvious that the names on the top are the band , so that can safely be added.

Agreed, the band can be added as performers.

I think performer would work.

Otherwise they can be added as Other, but then again, is it worth the effort for unlinked credits.

As above, "Performer" is assigned to "Instruments - Other Musical" in the credits list, so clearly not applicable for crew , engineers, and other non-musical roles.

"Other" is to be used for credits that are not musical or technical, so clearly not applicable for (backing) musicians and technical staff such as engineers Matthew Walsh (3) etc.

The individuals named on the artwork are not credited for their roles, they're just a list of names which to me can not be captured in the credits fields, except for the band set apart from the other names.

Without a clear, good option in our credits list or an external reference for the actual credits, I don't see a path that gives us linked credits.

el_duro
The individuals named on the artwork are not credited for their roles, they're just a list of names which to me can not be captured in the credits fields, except for the band set apart from the other names.

Agree totally

IMO, most practical:

All can be listed as "Other".

Those for whom a role can be determined via external sources, add the role as [Uncredited].

Add a note that the names appear on the release but the roles aren't credited.

The submission can be updated at any time when more information becomes available, those still undetermined remain as "other".

Linking all (by using the generic but in this case probably inaccurate "Performer" credit) IMO is impractical since it would generate a bunch of profiles for which absolutely zero information is available and which can just as well be duplicates.

rdvriese
All can be listed as "Other".

You beat me to it. I was just looking at "credits" and it was a duh moment. This one for sure.

rdvriese
Linking all (by using the generic but in this case probably inaccurate "Performer" credit) IMO is impractical since it would generate a bunch of profiles for which absolutely zero information is available and which can just as well be duplicates.

Yeah, I would agree with this.

It's no hurry to update anything here, so I'll sit on this for a bit. I think the best option is "Other" since we can safely assume the people did participate in some way, but we don't know how. I wish we had something akin to "Artwork" (linked) and "Artwork By" (unlinked). That way we could at least link the ones that were on the other live War On Drugs album, but avoid the others. Oh well!

After carefully thinking about it, I think the "Other" credit, even though unlinked, is the best implementation for now. You're able to at least document the credit, even if it's not "live," and if further research brings up information about that person, it's easily updated.

As each linked role comes under a category of role (Production, Instruments, Visual, etc.) I don't think any existing linked role can be used where the type of role performed on the release is unclear. So, as things stand, I'm another one for Other.