French capitalisation question

http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/history?release=1546182#latest
What's correct? C'est or C'Est?
'Est' is a new word, so I would choose the latter, but there are quite some French titles in the database that use C'est.

A good question. there are some other similar cases of course that I wondered about already. My opinion is that "C'Est" is covered by the guidelines whereas "C'est" is not necessarily and would need another exception rule...do we want that? I don't think so. therefore C'Est gets me vote.

there was a lot of topics about that (but I don't find the most recent) and I think you're right, Est is a complete word

actually it's the contrary which had been decided. unless specifically written as such on the release, or when it's a proper noun, it should be spelled out as "C'est L'amour" for example

as reminded in previous threads, contractions are not capitalized in English (on Discogs). neither in French

similar threads

la-voie-du-sabre
contractions are not capitalized in English (on Discogs). neither in French

+1

la-voie-du-sabre
actually it's the contrary which had been decided. unless specifically written as such on the release, or when it's a proper noun, it should be spelled out as "C'est L'amour" for example

Indeed.

la-voie-du-sabre
actually it's the contrary which had been decided

the most recent thread doesn't seem to have a real consensus

Actually even truncated words are capitalised...
'Lectric Funk - Shanghaied
As it means "Electric", mustn't be 'lectric instead of 'Lectric???
In italian there are many words contracted as in French.
In neapolitan many truncated.
How' the way they're gonna be??? I'm confused.

Basic Guidelines:
1.2.2.c.Abbreviations, contractions and hyphenations should start with a capital letter. The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release, except where all caps have been used, which should be turned to lower case.

For Charles Aznavour - Que C'est Triste Venise: It is all caps on the cover, so it should be turned to lower case.

typoman2
1.2.2.c.Abbreviations, contractions and hyphenations should start with a capital letter. The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release, except where all caps have been used, which should be turned to lower case.

This is not clear to me.
'lectric doesn't start with a letter, but with the -'- that cannot be capitalised, like numbers, for instance.
If we ignore signs and numbers (like in 7L), MUST be C'Est and not C'est, because there are two words, the latter preceded by -'-
Am I wrong?

Moreover, titles on "latin" releases have always only the first word capitalised, then we cannot follow the cover format or we would go against Discogs rules.

TwinPowerForce
the most recent thread doesn't seem to have a real consensus

indeed ...
that's why I've choosen ie D'Amour (Track 2-21) here:
Fauré*, Hahn*, Bizet*, Chabrier*, Rachel Yakar, Claude Lavoix - French Songs
http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-6294393-1415811537-7097.jpeg

Please let me know if a clear consensus is reached and something should change.

Willow.the.Wisp
that's why I've choosen ie D'Amour (Track 2-21) here:

… and with this decision you have ignored the cited Basic Guideline which says clearly:
1.2.2.c.Abbreviations, contractions and hyphenations should start with a capital letter. The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release, except where all caps have been used, which should be turned to lower case.
On release lower case has been used which therefore also in the tracklisting should have been used (except 1-16).

Hello, if "C'est" should be written "C'Est", should "Don't" turn to Don'T", "I've" to I'Ve" and so on?
Grammatically, "C'est" is a contraction of "ça est", which doesn't exist in french language. That's why I would say that "C'est" should be considered as one and only one word and should appear as "C'est".

Indeed. It is 2 words combined to 1 word. Ce Est -> C'est +1

... However, in the database, "L'esprit" (which is a contraction too) is written "L'Esprit"... "Qu'Est-Ce Qui Fait Marcher.." is also spelled like this (not "Qu'est-Ce...").
This forum question is similar to the french language : very easy, but There'Re many exceptions that lead to many difficulties!!! Why do we have to capitalize every word on discogs is the true issue!!! Nevertheless, I HaveN't Any Problem With It!

typoman2
(except 1-16).

hmm .. what about 2-25?

typoman2
… and with this decision you have ignored the cited Basic Guideline which says clearly:
1.2.2.c.Abbreviations, contractions and hyphenations should start with a capital letter. The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release, except where all caps have been used, which should be turned to lower case.
On release lower case has been used which therefore also in the tracklisting should have been used

If some more sharing this POV I'm happy to amend the tracklisting accordingly.

virginie77
Hello, if "C'est" should be written "C'Est", should "Don't" turn to Don'T", "I've" to I'Ve" and so on?
Grammatically, "C'est" is a contraction of "ça est", which doesn't exist in french language. That's why I would say that "C'est" should be considered as one and only one word and should appear as "C'est".

No. It's different.
Because
ça est=c'est
do not= don't
I have= I've.

It is different the word from which there is the elision and the position of it within the word.

Concerning

typoman2
The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release

Then should be:
Dans les ruines D'une abbaye
and this is not possible.
That line cited means nothing, at least it's a contradiction

Here's another great example http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/R%C3%A9serv%C3%A9-Nostalgie-DHollywood/release/2652360

Would you guys use D'hollywood or D'Hollywood :)

_80_
Here's another great example http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/R%C3%A9serv%C3%A9-Nostalgie-DHollywood/release/2652360

Would you guys use D'hollywood or D'Hollywood :)

O.o
How to destroy a rule :D

... And have look at "General de Gaulle" and "Charles De Gaulle" (right is "de Gaulle")!!! I've just corrected it

_80_
Would you guys use D'hollywood or D'Hollywood :)

If I understand this correctly "1.2.2.c.Abbreviations, contractions and hyphenations should start with a capital letter. The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release, except where all caps have been used, which should be turned to lower case." correctly, then it should be "D'hollywood"
Do we really want that?

No, but we possibly want to have the artist renamed Réservé as that's their correct, proper, actual, gramatically sanctionned name and how they are credited on all 3 of their releases, too.

_80_
Here's another great example http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/R%C3%A9serv%C3%A9-Nostalgie-DHollywood/release/2652360

Would you guys use D'hollywood or D'Hollywood :)

la-voie-du-sabre
unless specifically written as such on the release, or when it's a proper noun

Willow.the.Wisp
hmm .. what about 2-25?

I haven't noticed 2-25, yes, that's a typo in the booklet. It should be L’île
see: http://imslp.org/wiki/L%27%C3%AEle_heureuse_%28Chabrier,_Emmanuel%29

typoman2
The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release

That does mean: The rest of the word with hyphen, the rest of the contraction!
NOT: The rest of all the following words … so this:

laserta
Then should be:
Dans les ruines D'une abbaye

is definitely not what is asked for in the Guideline.

_80_
Would you guys use D'hollywood or D'Hollywood :)

Of course D'Hollywood because Hollywood is a proper name which is always written with an upper case.The Guideline doesn't change that.

la-voie-du-sabre
or when it's a proper noun

Where do you find this sentence in the actual Guidelines ?

not in the guidelines but following the x number of prevous discussions, ie which exceptions regarding contractions - proper nouns obviously

typoman2
Basic Guidelines:
1.2.2.c.Abbreviations, contractions and hyphenations should start with a capital letter. The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release, except where all caps have been used, which should be turned to lower case.

For Charles Aznavour - Que C'est Triste Venise: It is all caps on the cover, so it should be turned to lower case.

This.

la-voie-du-sabre
as reminded in previous threads, contractions are not capitalized in English (on Discogs). neither in French

+1. It should be C'est.

typoman2
typoman2
The rest of the words capitalization should follow as on the release

That does mean: The rest of the word with hyphen, the rest of the contraction!
NOT: The rest of all the following words … so this:

laserta
Then should be:
Dans les ruines D'une abbaye

is definitely not what is asked for in the Guideline.

Maybe it's a mother tongue problem BUT I don't catch what you say in what is cited/ written in the guidelines.
It is written "the rest of the wordS" and not your interpretation "the rest of the word"
AT LEAST it's badly written and this

la-voie-du-sabre
not in the guidelines but following the x number of prevous discussions, ie which exceptions regarding contractions - proper nouns obviously

is the prove.
About 1% of the submitters reads all the forum threads and get to know it's D'Hollywood and not D'hollywood.
If we have to follow a rule, this must be friendly written.

virginie77
... And have look at "General de Gaulle" and "Charles De Gaulle" (right is "de Gaulle")!!! I've just corrected it

In Italian is the same: de Sica, de André, de Gregori...
originally was de' Sica, de' André, de' Gregori, but dropped in the last centuries.
Because it was "dei Sica" (from Sica family) = "de' Sica": "dei" was the proposition, not part of the noun and, then, not capitalized.
I think in french came in from italian.

P.S. the same in Deutsch/ Dutch/ Flamish
i.e. Herbert von Karajan

Fauni-Gena
+1. It should be C'est.

and also Guns N'roses, Rock n'roll ?

TwinPowerForce
and also Guns N'roses, Rock n'roll ?

And why should that be? Because you leave out the spaces which should be made?
Guns N' Roses and Rock 'N’ Roll … 3 words each – not 2, so these are not contractions.

laserta
It is written "the rest of the wordS" and not your interpretation "the rest of the word"

No offence, but the problem seems to be your grade of English comprehension and grammar knowledge, sorry.
It is written: The rest of the words capitalization …
That's not plural, it's a genetive construction – a nicer way to say: The rest of the capitalization of the word. And because this would be bad style in English, as you say badly written, you use the genetive construction.

C'est vrai!

DetroitBootyBass
C'est vrai!

C'est vrai ! please
always insert a space before ! ? ; and : in French

Merci !

typoman2
No offence, but the problem seems to be your grade of English comprehension and grammar knowledge, sorry.
It is written: The rest of the words capitalization …
That's not plural, it's a genetive construction – a nicer way to say: The rest of the capitalization of the word. And because this would be bad style in English, as you say badly written, you use the genetive construction.

I won't take any offense. No do you, I hope.
I'm no mother tongue, but genitive (not genetive) must be "word's capitalization" and not "words capitalization" that express only a simple plural.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case

Yup, you're right, a typo I suppose which doesn't help … but nevertheless – plural makes no sense here.

laserta
No do you, I hope.

Of course not. I just try to help and if you're right – you're right …

typoman2
Yup, you're right, a typo I suppose which doesn't help … but nevertheless – plural makes no sense here.

That's why I say is badly written or "bad style english".
As in here the majority is not mother tongue, rules must be clear in concepts and language.
And this one in particular must add the "personal noun" phrase.

typoman2
The rest of the words capitalization

I actually took this for plural (which indeed makes no sense), supposing it should have been [words'], which was wrong as I now understand. It should have been [word's]. Thanks for clearing this up.

laserta
And this one in particular must add the "personal noun" phrase.

Well, it's a common problem that lots of details have to be retrieved by searching the Forum.
Not an ideal situation, you're right here as well, but that's discogs … sigh …

So let's work to improve ;)

I suppose I am here too long to be as optimistic as you still are …
but one always should try, you're right again.

Edit: FYI – the use of the spelling »genetive« isn't »wrong« … it's an alternative spelling – it just shows that the author is a really old fart who has learnt his grammar based on old Latin terminology like me …
It was the common spelling in my school days – and still accepted in today (marked as »old-fashioned« though in the dicitionary)
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/genetive or http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/genetivus
http://www.yourdictionary.com/genetive

Hi guys, good morning.
I'm coming from Italia forum to hear what's going on here about Capitalization.
I think that everyone can tell his own opinion and discute on.
Maybe it can change the rules that aren't exactly Bible's commandments .
But I think is good way to act it step by step and not to do as everyone please.
(IMO) Anarchy is not the right way to relate to a regulated site as Discogs.
So , it's right to discute before act as well:

http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/history?release=3319632#latest

Capitalization guideines aren't changed, I think (correct me if I'm wrong).

D’amore is correct ref. to Basic Guidelines: 1.2.2.c

Yes i'ts true.
I was speaking in general, for artist like De Andrè or de Andrè.
No incorrect of needs minor changes were given, as you can see.

Sorry, laserta’s edit …

Edit: … and ref. your name problem please see http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/help/database/submission-guidelines-general-rules 1.2.2.
1.2.2.a. Artist names which have consistently unique letter-casing will be accepted with proof that the artist uses that spelling consistently and intentionally. This also applies to artist name particles (e.g. van, von, di, de, la, etc.), which can be in lower case if the artist spells it that way consistently.

Thanx, were precisely the ones that I mentioned.
You can link me some examples are given correct?
If the rule means as I wrote, for those Italians names there will be quite a lot of work to do.
We have every letter capitalized....

marcelrecords
C'est

+ 1

paskaloman, I would recommend to open a seperate thread for this under the heading »Name conventions« or similar as this is a completely different problem and you will gain more interest seperately …

Yes, I will.
Thanx for ing and your time, typo .^___^.

typoman2
I would recommend to open a seperate thread for this under the heading »Name conventions« or similar as this is a completely different problem and you will gain more interest seperately …

As anyone tookany further steps, if I may, I wish "au contraire" discuss the matter in here, in order to not opening another new topic as already dozens exists and not lose information already written.
For instance, the only guideline relevant wich was many times cited:

typoman2
1.2.2.a. Artist names which have consistently unique letter-casing will be accepted with proof that the artist uses that spelling consistently and intentionally. This also applies to artist name particles (e.g. van, von, di, de, la, etc.), which can be in lower case if the artist spells it that way consistently.

;

is for sure not much clear and could be interpreted either way or misunderstood (as we discussed).
For this reason, this text must be changed/ integrated.
For doing that, must be reached an agreement or, at least, a good proposal, for ALL to read and apply.
All, because not everyone does it the same way, as everyone could check and in many release submitted.

My proposal, to be inserted in guidelines is: what hasn't any space in between (C'est, Isn't, D'amore) is a single word and mustn't be double capitalized.
Any comments/ different proposals?

Please let's build a better rule instead of debating every month in this forum :)
Thanks!

I have fixed "words" -> "word's" in RSG §1.2.2.c.

I think that guideline covers "C'est" ok. The only thing it doesn't cover is "D'Hollywood". The guidelines are meant to be general, do we need prescribed to that level what to do? Is anyone arguing it should be "D'hollywood"?

This new only wants to make chaos in the Italian release, the excuse it's the French capilalization, and turn around.
Years ago, I was not there either, it was decided Italian Forum to always use the upper case after the apostrophe, and this decision was accepted by the management, I have always followed this rule to standardize the release.
It should correct its submission instead of moving forward with meaningless arguments.
This is what I think.

nik
I think that guideline covers "C'est" ok. The only thing it doesn't cover is "D'Hollywood". The guidelines are meant to be general, do we need prescribed to that level what to do? Is anyone arguing it should be "D'hollywood"?

Me too I think guidelines cover "C'est". But the problem is not "D'Hollywood" that could be covered more clearly, if you want, by adding "except proper nouns".
But, please, understand for me "D'Hollywood" is covered because the guideline says that if it is capitalized in the cover, must be capitalized.
My problem is: why this doesn't cover "D'amore"? Because of an old italian community vote?
Mustn't be a rule equal for every language and regional community?
That's my point.
Thanks for clarifying this matter.

ladrodipolli
This new only wants to make chaos in the Italian release, the excuse it's the French capilalization, and turn around.

This is unfair.
I'm only pointing a problem.
Your "decision" is never to be seen and all newbies will submit basing on the guideline rule above, stating "D'amore"
Your difference make a mess, not me and would be much better discussing the problem instead of being rigid and accusing someone.

laserta
Your difference make a mess,

In Italy they told you that you're wrong
Is on rigid, your will is to edit the release to put them with tiny, none of us accept this.

ladrodipolli
it was decided Italian Forum to always use the upper case after the apostrophe, and this decision was accepted by the management

I would very much like to understand this 'acceptance'. Why would French and Italian have different rules about contractions?
Isn't "D'amore" exactly like "D'amour"?

ladrodipolli
it was decided Italian Forum

Sorry, but decisions made in other forums are not acceptable as standard, these should be brought to the general forums which everybody has access too. I find this kind of thing rather troubling. I see this happen in other language forums too. All decisions that affect the whole site should be made here in these forums.

marcelrecords
Isn't "D'amore" exactly like "D'amour"?

it is

thank you nik for clarifying this!

Amsreddevil
[quote=ladrodipolli]it was decided Italian Forum

Sorry, but decisions made in other forums are not acceptable as standard, these should be brought to the general forums which everybody has access too. I find this kind of thing rather troubling. I see this happen in other language forums too. All decisions that affect the whole site should be made here in these forums.

Bravo!
Even because is a "decision" made many many years ago, when there were 1% of s that are contributing now.
Decision made on the basis that "there are two words"
This is true ("Di Amore" makes "D'amore", as in French), but NO ONE in Italy (nor in ) says "Di Amore" (or De Amour), so, this makes it a SINGLE word CONTRACTED like don't, I've and many others in many languages.
Even "Para" e "Pioggia" are two separate words but, contracted makes up Parapioggia (Parapluie).
You can't write ParaPioggia (ParaPluie) because there are two words contracted, it would be crazy!

Rule must be coherent in every language, I guess

la-voie-du-sabre
thank you nik for clarifying this!

+1

laserta
Bravo!

+1

I'm coming a bit late on this thread.
As far as the elision is on "Ce" and not "Est", I would keep the Capital letter on Est.

yosemite
I'm coming a bit late on this thread.
As far as the elision is on "Ce" and not "Est", I would keep the Capital letter on Est.

What about ParaPluie?

laserta
Even "Para" e "Pioggia" are two separate words but, contracted makes up Parapioggia (Parapluie).
You can't write ParaPioggia (ParaPluie) because there are two words contracted, it would be crazy!

Ha ha ha, this really makes me laugh, two separate words ?, but come on, I do not have time to waste with your arguments meaningless.
All the words are composed of mergers of other words.

Amsreddevil
Sorry, but decisions made in other forums are not acceptable as standard

This was accepted by management years ago, i don't know if in Italian Forum or International Forum, is what I know.....Perhaps you would like to tell the Japanese how they should write in their own language?

I think Discogs capitalization are ok, but there are also exceptions, in all languages, I think, for example, in Rock 'N' Roll, or Rock 'n' Roll?

Parapluie is one word in French. No discussion on this point.

ladrodipolli
Ha ha ha, this really makes me laugh, two separate words ?, but come on, I do not have time to waste with your arguments meaningless.
All the words are composed of mergers of other words.

No, not ALL, a minor part, you miss.
None of these above, for instance.
Your arguments seems not very concrete.

Anyway your attitute is really unpolite and non cooperative for some reason I hope not to understand and with which I'm unconfortable.
So please, you are not obliged to answer me.
Thanks

yosemite
Parapluie is one word in French. No discussion on this point.

Even Parapioggia.
The same for C'est, I guess you could agree. They're both contractions.
I was saying that because the reason why to write "D'Amour" that gave me was: "there are two words" and so must be double capitalised.
It was an extreme example.

NOW someone say it depends on which word, the first or the last, got the elision.
It makes no difference to me.
I guess to you neither, because otherwise you must write "D'Amour" and "C'Est"

"C'est" in French are not one word but TWO.
No discussion on this point too.

laserta
Anyway your attitute is really unpolite and non cooperative for some reason I hope not to understand and with which I'm unconfortable.

You're not telling the truth, I'm not friendly?
In Discogs when you edit a release you assume all responsibility for edit....
You have dozens of submission or edit wrong, wrong label, track pos. wrong, I told you what to do, trying to help you, your answer was:
"You're boring me," are perfect.

I apologize, I will not do more, so go ahead as well.
Have a nice day.

J'Étais, C'Était are not contractions in the way they may form one only word (like parapluie from an ancient history) but only a trick in French (an elision) to the impossibility to pronounce two vowels one after another.
There are therefore two words each time.

ladrodipolli
In Discogs when you edit a release you assume all responsibility for edit....
You have dozens of submission or edit wrong, wrong label, track pos. wrong, I told you what to do, trying to help you, your answer was:
"You're boring me," are perfect.

Completely wrong.
I hope you could follow in not making anymore comments on me. Thanks.

ladrodipolli
You have dozens of submission or edit wrong, wrong label, track pos. wrong

Pot calling kettle?
You are bringing up points irrelevant to this discussion, I think laserta has a valid point here. Instead of putting him down, discuss this properly, you can agree to disagree in this case, management has the last say in matters like this. As whatever decision you are referring to that you cannot even if it was in the Italian or main forums was made years ago, and a lot has changed since, this can definitely be up for discussion again now imo.

yosemite
J'Étais, C'Était are not contractions in the way they may form one only word (like parapluie from an ancient history) but only a trick in French (an elision) to the impossibility to pronounce two vowels one after another.
There are therefore two words each time.

"J'etait" is a compelling elision, that means you cannot (it's grammarly wrong) write "Je Etait", while you can either write "Une Elision" or "Un'Elision".
Compelled elision is the father of contractions: it means, with the ing years, one become the other.
It's only a different step of a new word. Many elisions of Dante Alighieri are now contractions in Italian.
Sorry, but I studied Glottology ;)

Anyway, this is your point of view and I respect that.
Is not even the main point, because the main problem is the coherence of the rules.
If it is "D'Amour" then "D'Amore"
If it is "D'amour" then "D'amore"
It cannot be "D'amour" and "D'Amore".

What we need from Nik is which one of these solution is correct and that must be correct for ALL latin-derived languages, at least.
I think for Indo-European languages too (almost all European languages and their derivations)

When will I be told exactly if it is correct Rock 'n' Roll, or Rock 'N' Roll, it's the same thing.
However, they are things that interest me to a certain point, go ahead as you like, for me it's the same.

yosemite
As far as the elision is on "Ce" and not "Est", I would keep the Capital letter on Est.

And by that you infringe RSG 1.2.2.c.

The elision is omitting the vowel and adding the apostrophe.
(see i.e. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elision )
The result is the contraction of the two words.
(cf. i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraction_%28grammar%29
Quote: A contraction is a shortened version of the written and spoken forms of a word, syllable, or word group, created by omission of internal letters (actually, sounds).[1] In traditional grammar, contraction can denote the formation of a new word from one word or a group of words, for example, by elision. This often occurs in rendering a common sequence of words or, as in French, in maintaining a flowing sound.)

And: The French language has a variety of contractions, similar to English but mandatory, as in C'est la vie ("That's life"), where c'est stands for ce + est ("that is"). The formation of these contractions is called elision.

And contractions is exactly what 1.2.2.c is about – whether you look at them as one or two words …

laserta
Sorry, but I studied Glottology ;)

Well, I learned a new word today! Very interesting subject!
Respect!

Discogs has a credit "Oboe d'Amore" that generates a warning message.

But if we see "Oboe d'Amore" in a track title, it should be changed to "Oboe D'Amore"?
And "OBOE D'AMORE" should be "Oboe D'amore"?
And "OBOE d'AMORE" (which I've seen) should be "Oboe D'amore"?

It appears Discogs considers "Oboe d'Amore" an exception to the capitalization rules...

truedream
Discogs has a credit "Oboe d'Amore" that generates a warning message.

True

truedream
It appears Discogs considers "Oboe d'Amore" an exception to the capitalization rules...

Can't understand why this is an exception. Is not capitalized the first letter, that's all.
Put "D'amore" and you won't have your warning message.

nik
I think that guideline covers "C'est" ok.

what is the discussion still about, isn't that clear cut?
or do I misunderstand nik's comment?

marcelrecords
what is the discussion still about, isn't that clear cut?
or do I misunderstand nik's comment?

+1

I take it for granted for Italian too :)

laserta
truedreamIt appears Discogs considers "Oboe d'Amore" an exception to the capitalization rules...

Can't understand why this is an exception. Is not capitalized the first letter, that's all.
Put "D'amore" and you won't have your warning message.

The credit Discogs provides is "Oboe d'Amore".

marcelrecords
nikI think that guideline covers "C'est" ok.
what is the discussion still about, isn't that clear cut?
or do I misunderstand nik's comment?

Nik's telling us that "C'EST" should be "C'est". I imagine "d'une" would be "D'une"... So why "Oboe d'Amore"?...

truedream
The credit Discogs provides is "Oboe d'Amore".

Can you link it?
I don't understand which credit you are talking about.
If this credit gives you an error I don't think is an exception for Discogs but... let us see!

http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/help/creditslist

:D

I think I could guess why is written like that, but, let nik know and comment ;)

The answer is, I don't know why it is written as "Oboe d'Amore" and not "Oboe D'amore". Does anyone know the 'correct' way? I could have made a mistake when adding that credit to the list.

I think, even if it was a mistake, it's really small, since the release that have this credit, they really are very few....

what about the english o'clock, should it be 3 O'Clock (D'Horloge, D'Amour, C'Est) or 3 O'clock (D'horloge, D'amour, C'est) ?

nik
The answer is, I don't know why it is written as "Oboe d'Amore" and not "Oboe D'amore". Does anyone know the 'correct' way? I could have made a mistake when adding that credit to the list.

You copied that from an English publication for sure.
In Italy, like in , we capitalize ONLY after a dot or the proper nouns, anything else.
Then, the exact name is "Oboe d'amore".
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oboe_d%27amore
If you wanna format it as per RSG §1.2.2.c...
you know.

laserta
what hasn't any space in between (C'est, Isn't, D'amore) is a single word and mustn't be double capitalized.

+1
and slightly better…
what hasn't any space in between (C'est, Isn't, D'amore) is a single word under the Discogs capitalization rule and mustn't be double capitalized.
because we all know that contractions implies more than a single word.  We are facing here something like the war between the 2 usage of the word "compilation" : the dictionary usage (technical way) and the Discogs way (repackage).
It is fair to define what hasn't any space in between as a single word if the rule may do the job accurately.

laserta
NOW someone say it depends on which word, the first or the last, got the elision.
It makes no difference to me.

+11111

Amsreddevil
this can definitely be up for discussion again now imo.

+1

marcelrecords
nikI think that guideline covers "C'est" ok.
what is the discussion still about, isn't that clear cut?
or do I misunderstand nik's comment?

+1 but clarifying the differences between the dictionary usage and the Discogs way in the guideline is always a must.

laserta
In Italy, like in , we capitalize ONLY after a dot or the proper nouns, anything else

is Misspellings.
Some English speaking s have said in the past that they feel uncomfortable with the First Letter Of Each Word Capitalized because it drives to uncommon text but I did never read this was Misspellings.  In Italy, like in , because the rule is all words in lowercase except the specific usage of the uppercase, we see it as Misspellings since school.  So, the correct spelling is

laserta
Then, the exact name is "Oboe d'amore".

before applying First Letter Of Each Word Capitalized steamroller.

nik
The answer is, I don't know why it is written as "Oboe d'Amore" and not "Oboe D'amore". Does anyone know the 'correct' way? I could have made a mistake when adding that credit to the list.

For our purposes, I think "Oboe d'Amore" is best, but it's an exception to the guidelines. If I saw "d'amore" in a tracklisting, I would enter it as "d'Amore" based on this precedent. It would hurt me to have to put "d'AMORE" as "D'amore".

what about the english o'clock, should it be 3 O'Clock (D'Horloge, D'Amour, C'Est) or 3 O'clock (D'horloge, D'amour, C'est) ?
Same for Coup d'état and Chef(s) d'œuvre (masterpiece)

truedream
For our purposes, I think "Oboe d'Amore" is best

I thought about it, and read something.
The name is absolutely italian, but his inventor is German and they capitalize Liebe.
Then, a Germancomposer gave an italian (prevalent language for classic music, at least at the time) name to it, but wrote down in German.
Could someone agree? It is possible?

TwinPowerForce
what about the english o'clock, should it be 3 O'Clock (D'Horloge, D'Amour, C'Est) or 3 O'clock (D'horloge, D'amour, C'est) ?
Same for Coup d'état and Chef(s) d'œuvre (masterpiece)

I think this was already clarified above.
As per guidelines: no space, no double capitalization.

laserta
I think this was already clarified above.
As per guidelines: no space, no double capitalization.

http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/search/?q=o%27clock&type=release

http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/search/?q=o%27clock&type=artist

http://discogs.librosgratis.biz/search/?q=o%27clock&type=label

... nothing is clear ;)

Willow.the.Wisp
... nothing is clear ;)

You brought three, I can show you a thousand.
This only means a mass editing is needed

laserta
You brought three

nope ... I've linked the corresponding sections: release; artist and label ;)

laserta
This only means a mass editing is needed

good luck

Willow.the.Wisp
good luck

I have, thanks

laserta
As per guidelines: no space, no double capitalization.

I just reread Capitalization & Grammar RSG §1.2.1 and did not find this "no space, no double capitalization" thing. Where did you see it ?

GastX
I just reread Capitalization & Grammar RSG §1.2.1 and did not find this "no space, no double capitalization" thing. Where did you see it ?

It was just a "contraction" of the whole discussion, in particular of what you said.

GastX
+1
and slightly better…
what hasn't any space in between (C'est, Isn't, D'amore) is a single word under the Discogs capitalization rule and mustn't be double capitalized.
because we all know that contractions implies more than a single word. We are facing here something like the war between the 2 usage of the word "compilation" : the dictionary usage (technical way) and the Discogs way (repackage).
It is fair to define what hasn't any space in between as a single word if the rule may do the job accurately.

I didn't have the will to go through the whole discussion again as TwinPowerForce.
Then, I did just what he needed to post evidence of his example ;)

It seems to me the problem is differing logics, as far as French and English are concerned: In French contractions like "c'est" are considered 2 words, "ce + est", whereas "it's" is considered 1 word, probably b/c English contractions use the end of the 2nd word to form them... which is why I prefer the "C'Est" way for submissions here. On the other hand, as pointed out above in the thread, most words in titles of songs (and books) begin with lower case letters in French, and in other Romance languages, apart from the first letter of the title and the noun that follows, plus any adjectives, I believe, as in "Le Chat Bleu qui est sur la lune". It looks ugly for an English speaker, but then again we don't capitalize "little words" in titles, like "to" or "of", and that can also look unesthetic. I enjoyed the "capitalization steamroller" reference above!

...now that I see "o'clock" is also controversial, I would weigh in for "O'Clock", as it is indeed a contraction using the first letter of the 2nd (or 3rd) word: "Of the Clock". On a Discogs submission I think "O'clock" looks ugly. For all intents and purposes, though, isn't the search engine above case-sensitivity?